How much PC can you get Vs. Xbox one and PS4

"mcseanerson" (mcseanerson) 08/22/2014 at 02:45 • Filed to: None

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I was talking to a couple of opponauts earlier and telling them they should get PCs instead of another console. Like a lot of people with roots in console gaming they seemed hesitant, primarily over cost. Now this is not one hundred percent car related but I think a lot of people who play racing games on Oppo might not other wise be exposed to this information.

Commence the Learnings

First you need to pick out a CPU. I recommend basically the cheapest thing of the current intel generation because this will leave you room to upgrade later when you have more money and will do pretty good by you right now. Something you can't do with a console.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! : $45.99 Total: $45.99

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Next pick out a motherboard. For this build I am being very frugal. Typically I advise spending a little more money on your motherboard because it is the chassis you will build around and determines how long you can keep upgrading before you basically have to replace the whole computer. For this build this basic no frills Asus board will get the job done.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! : $52.99 Total:$98.98

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Then select some Ram. Honestly nobody really needs more than 4 GB typically but it's so cheap and especially with only two slots I'd recommend buying more because if you want to upgrade in the future you basically have to toss your ram. With this build though I am being an outright cheapskate so 4 GB will do.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! : $52.99 Total: $151.97

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Then select your hard drive. I am in love with solid state drives and will never go back. You on the other hand can live with a WD Blue 1TB 7200 RPM drive because it's cheap.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! : $59.99 Total: $211.96

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Then select a case and power supply. Again I would recommend something nicer, especially in the power supply department as those cheaper ones can fail often. In the interest of frugality we will chance it on this cheap one and if it blows you just buy a nicer one with a better warranty.

No name case and PSU:$44.99 Total:$256.95

Now stop right here! If you want the absolute cheapest PC you can build we're pretty much there. We could've spent a bit more on a processor with better graphics integrated but really nobody wants that on a desktop. Now if you can spend a little more you will have a computer that will rival a PS4 and Xbox One and is fully capable of stomping them down the road when you have more money for upgrades.

The Graphics card. The part that makes or breaks a gaming PC. Now a lot of people will go crazy and spend a ton of money on this part and ignore the rest of there build. Do not do that. The graphics card I am recommending is perfectly capable of good gaming and there is no reason to upgrade beyond it without spending more on other things like cooling, power supplies, an SSD, a better case, a faster CPU, etc. etc.

For this build I am recommending the AMD R7 260X. It can run Battlefield 4 at 60 fps and I usually reference this game because it is one of the most challenging games to a graphics card short of ones that basically try to break your graphics card as well not typically caring what processor you have installed so it gives you a good idea how good your graphics card is.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! : $109.99-$20 rebate: $89.99 Total: $346.94

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So there you have it. A PC that will run Battlefield 4 at a minimum frame rate of 68 fps at 1080p for $346.94. That is a higher resolution and minimum frame rate than !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! all for $50 less. I did leave off some odds and ends like a keyboard and mouse and I didn't add a display because if you want you can just use your tv. The biggest thing I left off is an Operating System or OS for short. You can install Linux or Steam for free but for less tech savvy people who want to play every game now you're going to want Windows. One reason I didn't include it is pricing can vary. You might pay full price of $100, you might trust some random store on a google search selling it for $65, or you might luck out like I did and be in a college that participates with a Microsoft program like !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! that lets you install the current version of Windows for free.

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If you all liked this and would like to see other builds with more power or different brands let me know in the comments. If you hated it and want to chase me out of your romanian village with Trabants that fire pitchforks and shoot fire let me know and include pictures, otherwise I'll just assume you're lying gypsies with Ladas.

PS9 > mcseanerson 08/22/2014 at 03:06

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4 GB isn't enough anymore. I've got 4 GB and approach 90% memory utilization with just the browser open, with lots of stuttering from hard drive paging if I dare to do more than 6 or so tabs. On top of that, both consoles have 8 GBs now, so you can expect games ported from there to require more than 4 GB from now on. Watchdogs already requires 64 bit OSs and 6GB minimum . Sticking with such a small amount of RAM will shut you out of a lot of the ported next gen games.

mcseanerson > PS9 08/22/2014 at 03:19

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You can get 8 GB for $25. Still I argue that 4 GB is enough for all but the most demanding applications. My wifes Chromebook can handle tabs like a champ and she only has 2 GB and a Celeron. My desktop has 16 GB and with many tabs and windows and spotify and steam running as well as a video in Amazon Prime I am using a bit over 4 GB but still under 5 GB. This is a budget build though and is not intended to play every game ever or run every application. It's just a starting point.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > mcseanerson 08/22/2014 at 03:21

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I wouldn't mind upgrading to 16GB just to harness the Y50's capabilities with a Maxwell GPU (860M.)

mcseanerson > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 08/22/2014 at 03:28

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I am only running 16 GB because we have a local Microcenter that just offers crazy deals. When I went in to buy my parts I intended to buy a 2x4 GB kit and they offered me a 2x8 GB kit for an extra $10 and like I said ram is cheap and it's good to futureproof on the cheap when you can. Before anyone tries to go for more than 8 GB, or even 4 GB unless you really have to in my opinion, I would advise upgrading to a solid state drive. So many people I have known were hesitant to upgrade because reading reviews doesn't do it justice, it's something you have to experience. Anyone I've gotten to use a SSD for more than an hour has ended up upgrading.

PS9 > mcseanerson 08/22/2014 at 03:35

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My wifes Chromebook

Keyword, there. Chrome OS began life as a thin client that could only run web apps. It was later changed to allow for local offline applications, but the underlying light, fast, and low memory footprint linux kernel underneath hadn't changed. Chrome OS is a lot closer to Android than it is to windows. It simply cannot be said that 4GBs is more than enough for every system everywhere just because Chrome OS can make due with half that.

Also, for 'the most demanding applications', you need to forget about either 4 or 8GB; those exist in the DCC realm, and require you to consider 16-32GB and a 4 core i7 with hyperthreading if you want a machine that can get out of it's own way. Trust me when I say that trying to finish a model with a few million polygons in it on a low-end machine that can only give you 5 fps in the viewport is no fun at all.

All Motor Is Best Motor > mcseanerson 08/22/2014 at 03:41

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This is a good list, and I agree with most of it. Using a cheap case usually gets the job done just fine for most needs. More expensive cases typically have somewhat better cooling, better aesthetics, and some bonus features which aren't required. That being said, I would definitely spend a little more on a better power supply, probably at least an 80+ Bronze rated unit for better power efficiency and durability. It has been said that cheap power supplies can slowly damage your components over time with dirty power.

The Western Digital Blue drive is a good choice. It's not very fast, but it isn't extremely slow, and Western Digital drives have proven much more reliable than the cheaper and faster Seagate Barracuda drives.

As for the processor, if you're willing to go higher, the latest Intel Pentium G3258 has proven to be an unbelievably powerful processor (and much faster than the Celeron at stock speeds) if you're willing to spend the time and effort to overclock it: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pentiu…

It can be had for ~70 dollars on Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc… , or $24 more than your pick, bringing the price to $371.

The only downside is if you want to overclock you'll need to upgrade the CPU cooler, which may push the cost into a low end i3 range. Low end i3's can be had around $130 and will be a much better processor overall. The very good i3 4330 can be had on Newegg for $140. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc… This would bring the price to $442. Certainly a lot more than the $347 build, but you would be getting a MUCH more powerful, versatile (thanks to hyperthreading simulating 2 more cores) and longer lasting CPU than the initial Celeron you listed. You may not need to upgrade from this i3, at least not for a long time.

Also, 4 GB of RAM is fine for average computer use and many older games. But today's latest games, including Battlefield 3 and Battlefield 4 NEED more than 4 GB of RAM to run smoothly at the kinds of detail settings an R7 270 can achieve. I had to upgrade to 8 GB from 4 GB on Battlefield 3 when I started playing on my AMD 5870. You can go cheaper on the ram and get 8 GB for about 80 bucks total.

The other thing I want to bring up is that in a build like this, people are going to have to pay for a copy of Windows. Sadly, this is expensive at about $100: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc…

Considering your initial build with the Celeron, people will realistically have to pay about $447, and that's excluding possibly having to buy a monitor, mouse, and keyboard. A decent monitor will cost about 100-130 dollars. A decent mouse and keyboard can be had for about 30-40 dollars as a combo or separately. Now we're looking at about $640 for a total build including roughly 100 bucks for a monitor and roughly 40 for a mouse and keyboard.

$640 for a whole setup with the same hardware you listed in the initial post? Yeah, it's a lot but now you've truly got everything you need for the computer. You'd also be getting a more versatile product than an Xbox One or Playstation 4, but I don't think you'll achieve the same kind of visual quality that those consoles can reach. Consoles are better able to make use of their hardware than PCs are. Spending about $740 total by getting a low end i3 will probably build you a computer capable of truly beating the Xbox One and Playstation 4.

mcseanerson > PS9 08/22/2014 at 03:44

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I think being worried about 16 GB of ram when the system I'm referencing is only running a mechanical hard drive is a waste of time and money. I plan builds around bottlenecks because trying to buy one part or several parts while leaving one behind still ends up with a slow system. Just so I'm clear I'm only running an i3 on my desktop and the only area I really need for more performance is when I'm encoding videos. Otherwise I'm content.

All Motor Is Best Motor > PS9 08/22/2014 at 03:46

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I couldn't agree more. I was forced to upgrade to 8 GB from 4 GB when I got Battlefield 3 and ran it on my AMD 5870. In multiplayer matches my RAM was maxing out and engaging a lot of page file use on my hard drives, which caused massive stuttering. Upgrading fixed the issue.

All Motor Is Best Motor > mcseanerson 08/22/2014 at 03:50

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RAM really isn't cheap. It's at an all time high. I agree with the solid state though. It's the single most noticeable upgrade you can do for your computer. The speed and fluidity they add to general computer use is astounding. I find normal computers without SSDs frustrating to use now.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > All Motor Is Best Motor 08/22/2014 at 03:59

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I like the Seagates better because I'm often ripping the label off HDD's and sending them back for warranty claims.. Seagates have a MUCH easier sticker to peel than the WD's :P

Can't send the whole drive because the client has sensitive data on it.

mcseanerson > All Motor Is Best Motor 08/22/2014 at 04:00

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I agree entirely with everything you said. Myself personally if I was going max cheapskate I would run it out of a cardboard box and spend the money saved on a better PSU.

As for the CPU I was aiming for absolute bottom dollar because I know so many people who won't even consider a PC until you get as close to the console price range as possible. I would jump to the Pentium absolutely for a budget build but to truly utilize it you would need to upgrade the cooler once again raising the price.

For most gaming you will need a purchased copy of Windows for most people and this will raise the price. You have that right but for the sake of argument about just being able to play one game that could be playable on Steam OS or Linux just to open discussion with people who would not consider a PC.

The reason I left off a monitor is because so many people view PC vs Console argument as gaming only and they would be more interested in playing on the tv. Also some people who don't want to entertain the idea of a gaming PC already have an older desktop and have a monitor keyboard and mouse and they just think they can't play games on it. I think the minimum for a true PC build should be $600 like you said. This was just an absolute bottom dollar build.

mcseanerson > All Motor Is Best Motor 08/22/2014 at 04:01

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Yeah, every time I go to work I just wait forever for applications to load.

duurtlang > mcseanerson 08/22/2014 at 04:23

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If you want a capable budget build you could get a used PC, and upgrade that. Use the case, power supply (it has to be a decent one), hard drive, optical drive and if it has them keyboard/mouse/monitor and sell off the rest.

If it's only a few years old and has a decent CPU you can retain the motherboard and CPU, although you might want to upgrade RAM depending on the amount that's installed. I would bring it up to 8 GB. Now all you need is a better graphic card.

If you bought an older (cheaper) PC you will need to install a new motherboard, CPU, RAM and graphic card and you're done.

mcseanerson > duurtlang 08/22/2014 at 04:28

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Anything cheap enough to be worth it would be so old you'd have to replace the motherboard, processor, ram and graphic card. Anything newer would cost substantially more and I would still doubt the quality of the power supply. Now buying a used monitor/keyboard/mouse for $50 or less off craigslist or your salvation army I fully support.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > mcseanerson 08/22/2014 at 06:51

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But will it uncharted, lbp 3, the order... and so on. Yes I'm a playstation guy, I just love the exclusives too much to change.

spanfucker retire bitch > mcseanerson 08/22/2014 at 06:59

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It really isn't and hasn't been for a while. Especially if you plan on gaming extensively.

mcseanerson > spanfucker retire bitch 08/22/2014 at 07:41

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I think you're confusing minimum with optimum. Can it run? Yes. Could it run better? Yes.

spanfucker retire bitch > mcseanerson 08/22/2014 at 08:15

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But we're talking about a gaming computer here. If this was just for a parent who needs web browsing and office software - that's not only what I would consider minimum, but optimum as well.

More and more games are moving to 64-bit, allowing them to address more memory, both system RAM and video RAM. And even those that are still 32-bit (the vast majority of them) they can still take up a huge amount of system resources. 8GB is the minimum that I would consider for a computer oriented around gaming. Optimum be damned.

mcseanerson > spanfucker retire bitch 08/22/2014 at 08:54

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What we consider minimum and what is the minimum to actually run a game at all are apparently two different things. I could run battlefield 3 and 4 off my Macbook Air with it's ULV Processor, integrated graphics, and 4 GB of ram. I didn't have all the settings on and was running at a reduced resolution averaging 30-45 frames per second. I conside that kind of build to be the minimum. It will run and it is playable even though it is less than ideal.

PS9 > duurtlang 08/22/2014 at 09:20

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Hey that's actually not a bad idea at all, especially if it's already got some version of windows on it...

AthomSfere > All Motor Is Best Motor 08/22/2014 at 09:37

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I mostly agree here!

Couple points though:

Better PSU: Yes, yes, yes! This is arguably the only place I would splurge a little and get either a name brand PSU or a cheap known re-badge of a good PSU. Nothing is worse than being on a new system that the PSU pops and takes a motherboard/ hard drive etc. with it.

That Seagate line was plain wrong. I have been building for 15 years (geez, that long already!?) and drive reliability doesn't care about brands. My personal best drives have all been Seagates. In the last 2-3 years out of the 2000 machines I support my highest failure rate has been Western Digital Black laptop drives. ~40% of the laptops are WD Blacks, and 90% of the hard drive failures are the same drive. The Seagates, Samsungs and even Toshibas have all fared much better. That said, that could change tomorrow.

All Motor Is Best Motor > AthomSfere 08/22/2014 at 12:28

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http://lifehacker.com/the-most-and-l…

Just saying, thousands and thousands of hard drives run by a data hosting company produce pretty telling results.

All Motor Is Best Motor > mcseanerson 08/22/2014 at 12:45

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I'm pretty conflicted on the unlocked Pentium G3258 actually. It's a good, powerful cheap CPU that can actually be overclocked way above it's normal price range. And yet, to actually overclock it involves spending about $50 more on a better cooler for the thing. At that point, you're spending $70 on the CPU, and adding in the $50 cooler brings you to ~$120. 10 more bucks (who can't spare 10 more in a PC build?) nets you a processor just as (and more) capable CPU in the i3 4330 that won't need messing with and will provide much better versatility and multitasking, as well as better performance in heavily threaded games.

I'm not too familiar with the Pentium line in general, and there's probably a "locked" version of the G3258 for cheaper which would be a better budget alternative to keep the price down in the rock bottom build we're trying to make. I do personally believe a mid range i3 is probably the best performance you can get in a budget gaming PC build as long as the budget can be made to fit.

I totally get the idea of what you mean with how some people won't consider a PC unless it's as cheap as a console. It's really hard to build a gaming PC capable of competing with the new consoles since the consoles are really being sold at a loss with hardware ordered en mass a bulk discount.

AthomSfere > All Motor Is Best Motor 08/22/2014 at 17:55

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Really, not sure about those pretty amazing results...

1) Exactly the opposite of what I see right now. (Anecdotal, but still)

2) "Backblaze says they buy the least expensive drives that perform well, based on stress tests and a few weeks in production. "

This might mean nothing more than Backblaze bought an extraordinarily bad line of drives. For example the Greens that reported had a 120% failure rate (I never buy/ use Green drives anyway)

But for whichever Seagate Drive that failed at 3.8%, that's better than Western Digital's overall failure rate.

With hard drives the standard expectation for a long time has been - Don't expect generation to generation or line to line to be a predictor of future successes. The Deskstar for example was known for a long time as the "Deathstar" because about all they did was die, but now they are the most reliable in that report.

I mean, there really is no way to know, and ruling one brand in or out is not productive really. One model, sure.

Other thoughts, what is failing. Logic boards, platters, heads... More platters for example increases the chances of a failure exponentially. Perhaps the Seagates they are buying are consistently lower density and higher platter counts.

Looking at the breakdown of the drives:

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/what-hard…

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The most reliable drives are obviously Samsung!

Joking, joking. Only 18 drives and all are 1TB drives. Much lower capacity than the SG or WD.

SG Avg density: 3.1TB

WD avg density: 0.9 TB.

Just too many questions... Also deployment type: NAS, SAN, RAID, same hardware, good clean power across the board (The warrantied drives being refurbs... a problem with Seagate's refurb process)...

Tohru > mcseanerson 08/25/2014 at 18:20

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Where the devil are you getting 8GB of RAM for $25? I have 8GB (4x2GB, actually it's 2 of the RAM kit you posted in the thread) in my PC and want to go to 16GB (4x4GB) or 32GB (4x8GB) but everything I find online is expensive as hell.

I already have an SSD.

mcseanerson > Tohru 08/25/2014 at 18:25

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I was referring to $25 more than 4GB.

Tohru > mcseanerson 08/25/2014 at 18:28

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You have dashed my hopes, sir. Dashed them on the rocks. I shall not forget this.

mcseanerson > Tohru 08/25/2014 at 18:30

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Sorry, if you live near a Microcenter they have good prices. This is what I paid on 2/15/2013 for my desktop's ram.

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Tohru > mcseanerson 08/25/2014 at 18:37

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Nearest one is in Chicago, a three-hour drive away. Not too far away from the closest IKEA to me as well.

mcseanerson > Tohru 08/25/2014 at 18:43

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You can order online as well but their best deals are for in store purchases. If you buy the more popular Intel CPUs they are already cheaper than newegg and if you buy with a motherboard they take $40 off the motherboard. I was going to buy one of those dirt cheap celeron or pentium CPUs but instead bought an i3 3225, over a year ago, for $120 and got $40 off my motherboard.

Tohru > mcseanerson 08/25/2014 at 18:58

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Nice. Next time I do an Ikea run I'll have to stop by.

mcseanerson > Tohru 08/25/2014 at 20:00

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yeah, they even price match newegg so if you use the newegg app on your phone just scan everything and have them price match anything that is cheaper.

Tohru > mcseanerson 08/25/2014 at 20:05

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Now they just need to start doing same-day delivery to keep up with Newegg.

mcseanerson > Tohru 08/25/2014 at 21:18

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Let's not get crazy now.

Tohru > mcseanerson 08/25/2014 at 21:57

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